Is there a claiming ladder?

[Cold Dog Soup]

Jocks were adjusted. on 8/31 and have not been touched since. They wont be adjusted again until Dec 31st if then. A few got slightly better a few got slightly worse and a few stayed the same just certain factors shifted. but the changes were not enough that I felt the need to adjust their grade. Rose. who I think is the only A+. Number wise is still the best jockey in the game. Why he doesnt win more is beyond me.

[Getting Lucky Lodge]

Yes! I have had the "flipped palate" in several of my races. The horse is tracking nicely next to the leader, leader begins to fade as my horse gears up....and then just flat stops like he saw a ghost. In RL this can happen if a horse blocks his own airway- thus the palate comment. But it doesn't happen often.

[Chrisman]

when I was experimenting with jockeys, I had thought Rose maybe the best, but then he went south. Probably all the bad mounts I put him on. I should give him another try for a couple of days. I could really use a little boost. percent wise anyway.

as far as the claiming ladder...interesting discussing.
I would like to add an opinion, that a drop down front runner may see yet faster early speed horses in a lower class. they don't always hold up but could cause some issues for a drop down speedster.
Also the a drop down speed could make it better for lower class closer.

On the other side, a drop down closer may not get the speed he need to perform his big late run. Many other factor as well.

Note also that the $3000 works better financially than the $6000 in most cases with the lower nom. bigger field, so you will see the same level horses in both.
I think if the nom is dropped some for the $3000 we will see better separation with the $6000. Possibly raising the $1200 some also.
Just some thoughts...

Chrisman
Super player on you know where, struggling here!

[Lone Star Stables]

Chrisman
Super player on you know where, struggling here!

That's checkers over there this is chess nice points by the way .

[Orb Farms]

Jocks were adjusted. on 8/31 and have not been touched since. They wont be adjusted again until Dec 31st if then. A few got slightly better a few got slightly worse and a few stayed the same just certain factors shifted. but the changes were not enough that I felt the need to adjust their grade. Rose. who I think is the only A+. Number wise is still the best jockey in the game. Why he doesnt win more is beyond me.

I am telling you, THIS is the difference this season, right below:


Brian, if an A or A- jock moved to B+, and there is a notable gap in his/her game, it should be adjusted. Heck, fantasy football salaries on the 2 major "daily games" adjust salaries every few days!

If Castellano 11.86 Win% and Velazquez win 11.84 % have not had enough "change" to warrant a grade change, then these jocks, listed currently as:

.
.
.

Castellano J

28/M/112

Continues his dominance...Top class GRADE A+

Velazquez J

41/M/116

Brags in the jockey room that he is the best sprinter jockey for 200 miles GRADE: A-

.
.Velazquez & Castellano are sitting at 10.00% win% in sprints. These were 23% and 24.5% for long stretches last season. Do your math!



....should be revised over the course of what amounts to a VIRTUAL calendar year.

I would advise EVERY NEW owner (and old) to check the Jockey board, and use other jocks, to suit your needs.....The old reliable ones are fading BADLY this season, and the Bridgmohan, Listed as "Loses concentration in longer rides, and was NEVER a sprinter jock, is winning 4F stakes races for example..??? Start tracking, and make the adjustments....... Chrisman, GLL, Orb, this probably speaks to some of our fits of puzzlement!

This is a strategy game founded on factual information, to make educated guesses.... But we cannot play "Pin the Tail on the Jockey" if the information is no longer relevent....that is all I was arguing. Can you please double check Brian to see if the changes perhaps might have been sufficient enough to warrant a description and grade change. One Virtual year is a Long time to not have this accurate, if the adjustment was even somewhat significant, and so far, the Facts - the statistics suggest otherwise.

Please Brian, I am not trying to argue or be difficult, but I feel passionately of a different opinion than you on this matter, and I kindly as you to reconsider.


Orb

[Taylorandtaryn]

Agree with Orb as far as Velazquez is concerned. I was using him as first or second call on most of my horses. My win percentage was tanking and I got off of him. I can show you several horses that the jockey switch has lead to wins the next time out.

[Cold Dog Soup]

I'm comparing jocks on Hipo since I didnt make any changes over there.

Velazquez and Castellano did not receive any update this season. Their numbers are the same this season as they were last season.


Why they are not winning at the same rate I cant explain.

The top two jocks this season. Sutherland and Curatalo also did not receive an update.

As I said in the earlier post about the jocks update. I didnt change any jock enough to warrant a grade change. To simplify a jock on a 100 pt scale may have went from an 85 to an 83. Very minimal changes were made if any at all. Not enough to warrant a change in grade.

I probably never should have done the grade in the first place but many trainers wanted it. How do you grade a jock that is near perfect on turf but horrible on dirt...I had to weigh it considering the number of races on those surfaces to give a fair idea on the jocks ability. So this jock would get a lower grade since there are fewer turf races. I'm sure there are jockeys with low B's and even C's that should first the first choice in some situations So please take the grade as just a rough guide.

[South Jersey Stables]

Are the jockeys being used on the exact same horses with the exact same meters and skill level in the exact same posts against the exact same competition in the exact same level as last season? If not then how can you determine a jockey's skill has or has not changed if they aren't riding the exact same scenarios. Maybe certain trainers moved to other jockeys. Maybe some less used ones are being used more. Maybe after a bad couple of days on the board people started to give them less quality mounts?

Isn't it expected that the horse is the majority of the determining factor in winning and losing? Granted they have some influence but to look at a jockey's % and say "well if I put him on I have a 20% chance of winning" is absolutely incorrect because that all depends on the horse, meters, position, inst, other horses, etc.

We're only 1/8th through a season. Curatolo has 165 wins and is on pace for 1155. He had 253 ALL OF LAST SEASON. Logic dictates that there's almost 1000 wins that are coming out of the other jockeys columns doesn't it? He's going to get 5x as many mounts as last season and 5x as many chances to win with big horses that the other jocks wont. One big stable changing their top jock can completely skew it as now the other jocks are available for the horses with less earnings, usually less skilled horses, for the place and show.

People ride what's hot and put the best horse they have on the jock they like best. If a jock draws bad mounts early or tough draws and people see him in a low % they are going to change their default selections or their go to guy. It's why there has always been fantastic jockeys not being used. It's why the grading system came out in the first place.

[Cold Dog Soup]

Good points MIke. Take Eddie for example. He has some of the best horses in the game and one if not the largest stable. if he stops using Velazquez. Then since overall Eddie's stable is above average then the average horse on the jock is going to drop in quality. Thus he's going to win less. The more people that start jumping ship then the worse quality of mount he's going to get. Maybe its nothing to do with programming but simply the quality of horse that is being used.

[Cold Dog Soup]

And furthermore I'm not sure who Greeko uses as his jock picks but he is winning a lot of races this season and has some great horses. If he doesnt use Vel and Cast then that will have a negative impact on their stats as well.

[Taylorandtaryn]

All I know is my stable won 5 very nice races tonight all with Curatolo plus one q race last night so he gets to stay on. For what it's worth I believe and had been told that jockeys have good streaks and bad streaks just like horses. Several seasons ago I used Curatolo a lot then I kind of faded away till this season again. I had never had any luck with Velazquez until last season even as he won for other stables. Now this season I just have not have any luck with him as he was on most of my horses. Maybe bad meters, bad post, or bad race selection but Velazquez and I didn't win many races so I had to make a change. I know a couple of seasons ago I started using Maragh on some of my horses and his win percentage did come up then others followed suit. There are some stables here I watch to see who they are riding as they have a good feel who is coming on this season vs other seasons. Just my thoughts for what they are worth.
Good luck at the races,
Eddie

[Orb Farms]

I started the Curatolo experiment at the end of last season, and got his numbers up. At the time, I believe I was the only trainer using him. I will go back and check. But yes, he is on a hot streak. Last season, I was getting better unlimited training numbers from him than any other jock, so I used him, and it paid off. Now the Curatolo train is off the tracks.

Once again, we have remember this is far from real racing, and that gets lost in the shuffle a lot.

[Orb Farms]

Are the jockeys being used on the exact same horses with the exact same meters and skill level in the exact same posts against the exact same competition in the exact same level as last season? If not then how can you determine a jockey's skill has or has not changed if they aren't riding the exact same scenarios. Maybe certain trainers moved to other jockeys. Maybe some less used ones are being used more. Maybe after a bad couple of days on the board people started to give them less quality mounts?

Isn't it expected that the horse is the majority of the determining factor in winning and losing? Granted they have some influence but to look at a jockey's % and say "well if I put him on I have a 20% chance of winning" is absolutely incorrect because that all depends on the horse, meters, position, inst, other horses, etc.

We're only 1/8th through a season. Curatolo has 165 wins and is on pace for 1155. He had 253 ALL OF LAST SEASON. Logic dictates that there's almost 1000 wins that are coming out of the other jockeys columns doesn't it? He's going to get 5x as many mounts as last season and 5x as many chances to win with big horses that the other jocks wont. One big stable changing their top jock can completely skew it as now the other jocks are available for the horses with less earnings, usually less skilled horses, for the place and show.

People ride what's hot and put the best horse they have on the jock they like best. If a jock draws bad mounts early or tough draws and people see him in a low % they are going to change their default selections or their go to guy. It's why there has always been fantastic jockeys not being used. It's why the grading system came out in the first place.

....as to your logic, I wonder why this did not happen for nearly 4-5 straight seasons? I guess it was just crazy luck?

Nobody thinks 20% means they have a 20% chance of winning - everyone knows it means the jock is winning 20% of his races.

Over at Hipo, there was a trainer who was in the money in 88 out of 90 races at one point. That's because 95% of his races were 3 horse fields (as were mine and most owners)! Stats and facts are stubborn things

By this chaos theory, there should be random ups and downs EVERY season, but that did not happen the last 4-5 seasons, only this season. I will look back, i could be mistaken about 1-2 jocks, but I am fairly certain, at least spanning the last 4 or 5

Orb