Everything in low

[Midwest Racing]

No offense to DD or any of the trainers here but this place is just not for me. Look for everything I have to go into cheap claimers asap. I will hold onto a few yearlings that show promise and race them next season but other than that anything not claimed will be shot. Time to cut my losses and get out for the most part.

As I was reading thru the forums going back a few years I would check the posters profiles and was stunned to see that the vast majority of the trainers are no longer here. I could not figure out why untill I started racing. Now I understand.

There are just too many good horses for too few races. Because of that every horse I enter is burried by horses dropping ridiculous amounts. 30claimers 1 day 5 claimer the next. And its not just 1 horse a race its usually 4 or 5. The established trainers here have the market cornered and I simply cannot compete with my limited bankroll.

Another problem I see is because of the limited races its very hard to put my horses in the correct spot without waiting what weeks? Your forced to race your horses in either the wrong distance or wrong surface or wrong class or you just dont race them at all. But of course since you pay a subscription you have to race them. So you just pick the lesser of the evils and try your luck. Sorry that dont cut if for me.

Based on what ive learned so far nearly every horse in my barn is a 2 claimer. Thats not what I had in mind comming here.

I ask you all not to take this the wrong way. Im really not complaining im just stating the facts as I see them. I dont see how this place can grow the way things are because unless your comming in with unlimited money I dont see how any new trainer can survive.

Good luck all

[Woodville Stables]

midwest

sounds like u need a new game ages 4 and up

[Daffidil]

That's life

Sorry you are not enjoying this. I am not involved in racing in real life; good thing!! They don't break down here!

It seems to me (though I could be wrong) that lately horses are really jumping around re what level they are entering. But this is a good thing, I think. Watch carefully, and try to figure it out, and maybe you can pick a 'sleeper' to put into allowance races. I'm not saying it's easy, but I think some people do it.

Also, most babies born here, I'd say, even with good pedigrees, that SHOULD produce great runners, miss that little dash of luck needed, and don't make it, which I think is like real life as well.

It is a game...everyone is in the same postion you are. Of course many have come and gone...just like in real life. How many 'old time' T.B. trainers are still at the track, and how many earn enough to buy their own groceries, not to mention hay and oats?

This game was written by softwear programmers, and into the program they have put (I'm guessing) 'if this happens, then either this, or this, or this will happen.' That is in the breeding of a mare to a stallion, a horse entering a race, whatever...just like in real life too! Cheaper though, right?

If you are not enjoying this, you should leave, because you deserve to enjoy your hobby. No problem there! It is a hobby.

[Socratic Racing]

Slow and steady wins the race.

Midwest makes a lot of points that applies to new comers to the game.

The main advice I can give to anyone that may come across this is to have patience. D/D has a steeper learning curve than just giving horses 1 3/8 lpgs and throwing them into races. If anyone gets a stake quality horse within 3-4 seasons they should consider themselves very very lucky.

A lot of the veteran players have put 4-5+ years in now to get where they are and yes some money but as others have compared if you play a round of golf each week that's probably going to cost you a lot more. I liken it to video poker strategy where you dont go for a royal flush every pull, but do what you can to either break even or get a little ahead so that you can play longer in hopes the royal does hit.

When starting out I believe that claiming is a much better option than sinking a weeks pay into the game and hoping to breed a champion. Claim the 3yo fillies for 5 dollars you can turn around and sell breeds for 1k a peice and make yourself 3 dollars. Be on the look out the low level horses than can win one level above them then drop them back to the level you claimed them at for a quick profit. Its moves like this that over a while will eventually bring yoru balance up to a level where you can pay to breed like the big guys. I.e. I claimed a horse for 20k a week or so ago that I ran once and retired. With 80k+ career earnings and a decent pedigree, it should sell out eventually at the 5k fee breeds I have it up for, doubling my money allowing me to do it again or breed more or claim more expensive horses to do the same with. Sometimes it may take a little more work and maybe a little more chance but can pay off...take for example the 2 horse Plan of the Sultan in today's race 1. By far from being a superb claim but has possibility...it recently ran 2nd in a starter allowance. Next starter allowance it will get -1 weight bonus. If one were to claim that horse for 20 k run it again in a 10k starter allowance with 2500 entry fee like the one before it holds a good shot and winning...if so you stand a good chance at getting 5k or so of your original investment back (if it finishes second, you are even better off because you make a small profit and can run it again with more of a weight bonus making more of a profit. Afterwards you have 2 choices i see....A if it performs well today run it at 20k until either hopefully claimed or maybe get in the money a couple of races than you can drop it to 10k and turn a slight profit with a claim.Or B sit on the horse double check the workouts and equipment though cyber has most likely done a good job..try to improve it..then later in the season when competition drops off run it in maidens and non winner allowances and turn a profit. This horse by far the perfect 20 dollar claim but it has potential to eventually turn a little bit of profit with a lot less luck needed than paying 20k to breed a horse. Keeping a close eye on claims..previous performances lack of workouts where add work can shave a half second can go a long way in helping to lay the groundwork to funding your stable. Do this a few times over a season and before you know it you have enough funds to breed a few extra horses and run a greater chance of catching that lightning in a bottle we are all looking for.

[Clover Stables]

Craig:

This commeint IMO is unjustified. The person is staing a fact that many of us new players feel the same way. The problem with this game is the established trainers get the best studs, mares and jockeys and we, the small newer stables have to exist on what is left. There is no solution and as a result you get many people leaving.. I think these concerns should at least be heard and if possible, things improved or you will have what you have appx 8-10 major stables killing off the little guys. Maybe there should be a rule where you can only drop 1 class at a time in the claiming ranks??? I personally will stay as I enjoy the game but also know it is not going to be cheap. Once my funds are gone so am I. The people on this site are great also and will help whenever they can, I like that. Great post IMO. Well Said.

Shannon

sounds like u need a new game ages 4 and up

[Woodville Stables]

booo whooooo

hey iam new and i dont cry.i win at all cost. if u dont like starting at the bottom like everbody eles and working your way to the top then take your toys and leave. dont get left behind nana bo bo

[Fog City Racing]

Brian makes some great points

This is a game that involves a lot of strategy, including the strategy of where and how you can be competitive. In the "real world" I used to work for the Maktoums from Dubai, and they definitely had more money and the best broodstock anyone could want. But they don't win every race. It is the same here. Two small stables won the Elims this year (WTG guys!). I have beaten the top stables in stakes races more than once in my 3 seasons- sometimes with their rejects. I love Rory, GLL, and Aardvark, but gotta admit that it feels pretty good to find a treasure in their trash!

If you see horses drop dramatically, then it means they are either off-form, were misplaced to begin with at the owner's loss, or are bargains that you can pick up and do something with. It takes patience, and you have to think. Lots. 'Til smoke comes out your ears and you want to toss your laptop.

As far as the "Big Stables" are concerned all 3 of the top barns regularly put workable horses in claimers. Yes, this means our inferior stock loses. It also means we have a chance to acquire some great bloodlines at affordable prices. Look at Dubai in my stable as just 1 example.

Breeding your own stock is probably the most exciting way to get new horses, but it is also the most expensive. The horse must be as good as a $10 claimer or it is a guaranteed loss. Claiming is safer. And the claiming ranks will smooth out once people decide what they have got. Finding the level for your horses is part of the process of starting a new season. As examples look up two horses from last season that had the fastest works consistently as yearlings, and wound up mediocre on the track- Don't Harsh My Zen and Phone Jack. By contrast 2 of my stakes winners- Larkspur and San Carlos- couldn't work a lick. PM me if you are curious about their times, but they were horrid.

In the end Daff and Brian are both right. This is a hobby so it has to be fun. But it is cheaper than lots of other hobbies and certainly cheaper than real thoroughbreds.

[Daffidil]

Fair? Conspiracy?

For you new people, there was an idea that there was a 'conspiracy' to ensure that the 'big' stables got the best horses, and jockeys. Some 'power' (Carl??) sat at his computer typing away, to ensure that this happened. Uh, why? And how?

No...the 'big' stables don't 'get' the best horses, they have a lot of the good horses, and they get assigned a lot of the good riders...but, since they are 'big' I suspect that they also have a lot of 'crap', which they either kill, or try to get rid of in lower races. They appear to have good horses, because they have killed their bad ones, or put them in cheap claimers.

My understanding is that the top riders are assigned to the top money winners in that race. If the 'big' stable has several decent horses for a particular race, likely they will have the top money winner going into it...and so get the best rider. Just like real life...jockeys pick the best horses.

'Have the best' studs? Again, they have probably gone through a bunch, killing the ones that didn't pan out. Over the years (yes, years) they have bred, and killed, a bunch of horses. Stands to reason that they have some nice ones kicking around. And do they put them on the public breeding page for all to use? No, of course not, why would/should they!

If any of you 'big' stables are willing, I would be interested in seeing what
%age of horses you are left with, from the ones you breed, each season. But you certainly don't need to do this.

Craig, I noticed that you are breeding a lot of babies from your recent stud...some good...some not so good. I think you have a few nice ones. When you 'magically' appear with these new babies, to clean up at the tracks (getting assigned the best jocks, as they should be) this is as it should be.

Newer people may wonder why you were the 'lucky' one, to 'get' these very nice horses, and why they, who pay the same subscription fee you do, do not have any wonderful horses. Is this fair? No, but life isn't fair, as we know.

So, my point is: the 'established' trainers don't 'get' the best horses, they 'build' them, killing the not so good ones along the way. And that cost them money...allowing them to make money. Break even? Well, I wouldn't say that...how much money can you make playing golf, if your name is not 'Tiger'?

By the way, do you know that most people expect to take care of their retirement years, by winning a lottery? Some do...but most contribute to the one that does.

The problem with this game is the established trainers get the best studs, mares and jockeys... Maybe there should be a rule where you can only drop 1 class at a time in the claiming ranks??? "

[Getting Lucky Lodge]

Fair Dinkum...

this is getting ridiculous....

We at GLL i guess are classed as one of the big stables, myself and Norm co own/operate the stable with some help form the meddling drunk Boris.

I have never gone through our account details, nor can be bothered, but if i did from when we first started to now, i would guess that we have pumped in somewhere in the order of 5-10k.. yes 5000 - 10000 american dollars.

I am not going to apologise for having good horses, or winning 6 races on a card or anything else which appears to make it hard for a small stable to compete. We play the game to maximize our success, We breed a hell of a lot of horses, and yes we kill many that don't make it to the track, Others are quickly dropped into 2 & 5k claimers to try and get rid of what we class as "shit" or time wasters, if no one takes them, they are killed

I would think the other big stables, Ryan, Falcon Aardvark etc operate in a similar fashion, and have run up similiar numbers.

As for any stupid conspiracy theories.... all bullshit.

Just play the game, if its not for you, then don't play

cheers,

Nigel

[Donovan Stables]

Hey Vicky,


I say AMEN,AMEN, I for one also use to complain about my success here at D/D but with the help of some of the BIG stables here i learned how to play the game and how to breed better babies and was taught patience by some of the BIG stables and did spend some money but not a fortune and now my stable is doing real good. I will say this i'am still here because the BIG stable trainers helped me and helped me alot. so i may doing good now put like everyone else i paid my dues and ask alot of questions and more questions and now i see what i was doing wrong and with a lot of help from then Big stables i'am on my way. Finally let me say the veteren or so called BIG stables will help any new member any time, because of that D/D will always live on.

[Clover Stables]

I have no idea where this CONSPIRACY thing came up. Anyway, I did not say I didn't agree with the way things are I was just pointing out why alot of new members do not stay, that is all. Please do not shoot the messenger. I have been treated fairly and justly by people here and plan to kick butt any chance I get but in a gentlemanly way. Good Luck to All.

For you new people, there was an idea that there was a 'conspiracy' to ensure that the 'big' stables got the best horses, and jockeys. Some 'power' (Carl??) sat at his computer typing away, to ensure that this happened. Uh, why? And how?

No...the 'big' stables don't 'get' the best horses, they have a lot of the good horses, and they get assigned a lot of the good riders...but, since they are 'big' I suspect that they also have a lot of 'crap', which they either kill, or try to get rid of in lower races. They appear to have good horses, because they have killed their bad ones, or put them in cheap claimers.

My understanding is that the top riders are assigned to the top money winners in that race. If the 'big' stable has several decent horses for a particular race, likely they will have the top money winner going into it...and so get the best rider. Just like real life...jockeys pick the best horses.

'Have the best' studs? Again, they have probably gone through a bunch, killing the ones that didn't pan out. Over the years (yes, years) they have bred, and killed, a bunch of horses. Stands to reason that they have some nice ones kicking around. And do they put them on the public breeding page for all to use? No, of course not, why would/should they!

If any of you 'big' stables are willing, I would be interested in seeing what
%age of horses you are left with, from the ones you breed, each season. But you certainly don't need to do this.

Craig, I noticed that you are breeding a lot of babies from your recent stud...some good...some not so good. I think you have a few nice ones. When you 'magically' appear with these new babies, to clean up at the tracks (getting assigned the best jocks, as they should be) this is as it should be.

Newer people may wonder why you were the 'lucky' one, to 'get' these very nice horses, and why they, who pay the same subscription fee you do, do not have any wonderful horses. Is this fair? No, but life isn't fair, as we know.

So, my point is: the 'established' trainers don't 'get' the best horses, they 'build' them, killing the not so good ones along the way. And that cost them money...allowing them to make money. Break even? Well, I wouldn't say that...how much money can you make playing golf, if your name is not 'Tiger'?

By the way, do you know that most people expect to take care of their retirement years, by winning a lottery? Some do...but most contribute to the one that does.

[Falcon Oaks]

WOW! Once again we go down the road with the big stables dominating all the races and how unfair it is to anyone else and it gets tiring. We(large Stab les) all are aware to grow the site we must help all Newbies get aquainted with the interworking of the game and hopefully give them enough good advice to run with and be successful if they choose to spend the money, time and effort to do so. So any comments addressing the unfair advantage of a big stable is cat crap. Nothing excites me more than if I don't win to see a small stable suceed in winning a race and especially a large stakes race.

As far as Midwest goes,he made some classic mistakes in claiming a bunch of 2 k horses and expecting them to be big winners. That just doesn't happen very often. He also claimed some rather unproven 2yo at 2k also.So some of the mistakes are his alone and not the fault of others. I think he also bred a few that turned out to be dogs and that also is equally frustrating.I told him ,and due to my busy schedule did not follow up, that he should claim some proven earners in a claiming class amd learn the ropes as this is the sure way of getting some purse money and learn to spot a horse correctly. I think he tried this but with the 2k class. His complaint is that too many drop in to a lower class from a much higher level and they run off with the win. That happens as if I do that I am trying to win a decent purse because I usually enter the Claiming Crown 2k races to hopefully cash a good purse and hope someone claims my horse. any horse we big stables enter in a claimer is fair game and we know it and sometimes there are multiple classy horses for that condition in the same race.

Now I am not criticizing Midwest as I hope he stays but we got a bit off tangent with the big stable inequities. We spend more money to win more purses to keep playing the game. Once again you must look at the earnings per starter and if you earn 2k plus per start you are probably in the black.
Best guideline for evaluating one's sucess rate. None of us have come in and dominated,in fact Amadave and Donovan both quit only to resurface with good stables and win the big ones.So when one of them addresses these issues they come from their experiences and are in fact the truth. I have said numerous times that I was 2 for my 1st 50 runners. I sucked but I enjoyed the people, took my lumps, and now only fund my account due to overbreeding or race sponsoring.In fact the Texas Two Step to run this Saturday is a concept to give marginal stakes horses a shot at good purses and is not a charity event for the small stables.My idea is to improve the
the stakes structure for all and see a real need for these type of events. I probably won't enter these races but I hope a small stable wins it all.

Anyway hope Midwest stays and the noise stops .

[Bald Farm Inc.]

New stables can become successful in this game with patience, some luck, and alot of "studying" of the horses here. The horses make you the money. Pay attention to bloodlines, etc. If you find a deal at 2 or 5k great, but I would rather buy a 50k horse with talent etc.. then buy 10 5k claimers. Build your stable slowly, ask questions, and good things can happen here. I have been here less than 1 full year, in my 3rd season and have actually cracked into the top 10 of stables. Some of it was luck, but I put in a lot of time and yes some money to build a stable. I learned from cheaper horses and following how bigger stables manage their horses of all class. There are great people here who want you to succeed because it only grows the game. New stables can be successful, and I hope the site gets many new members. This game is pretty fair, if you spend the time, the money, and do your homework you can win.

[Aquaman Stable]

We've been down this "newbie" path before with people who expect optimum results without putting the time and effort required to fully learn the game. I have been involved with the sport of horse racing since my early teens, and have a great knowledge and passion for the sport.

When I joined DD in January of 2008, I was very skeptical. I started slow, and it took me several months to learn the game to be competitive. I read forum articles and would ask questions to help me along. I always strived to do better, and I would relish the challenge to find different methods that would produce positive results. If people claimed my horses from me, I would claim horses to replace them. Sometimes in worked in my favor, and other times it didn't.

Everyone has their own niche in this game. For me, it is a fun and challenging hobby, and that is what it should be for all players. Complaining about the big stables monopolizing this game is absolutely ridiculous. Ryan's Express, GLL, and Aardvark Stable were all newbies once upon a time and have all paid their dues to be where they are today.

If you don't have the time or patience to fully learn the game, or you have to pay your electric bill rather than fund your account, then maybe it's time to move on to another hobby that can give you more joy.


Regards,

Aquaman

[Woodville Stables]

well said

my first season i started with crap....keep on ...built...claimed ...the chat room was a dam good lesson.....all older people help ...... and spent money.... i love this game .....best thing since sliced bread..